Comments
Cnik
Patriot Guard Riders
So it's ok to block the free speech of a pro-gay hating group like the Westboro Baptist Church, but it's not ok to block the free speech of a pro-gay hating corporation like chick-fil-a?
mohit_117
What's Chick Fil-A ??? I know it's a chain of restaurant, but what's that got to do with free rights and speech etc?? And why's it so popular??
Viscera
Patriot Guard Riders
So it's ok to block the free speech of a pro-gay hating group like the Westboro Baptist Church, but it's not ok to block the free speech of a pro-gay hating corporation like chick-fil-a?
where do you see anyone blocking anything about the people who are mad about chick fil a??? The left started going apoplectic that some guy had the temerity to answer a question he was asked, and now he hates people. The response from like minded people was, let's go spend money and show the hysterical activists who are crying like bitch slapped women that not everyone agrees. Where is there a movement to run gay business owners out of a city by the mayor? Where is the action to say that conservative traditional marriage supporters want to stop a company from existing and hoping that heir patrons die from disease? The Patroit Riders are expressing their freedom of assembly just as Westboro is. BTW I would love someone to stop Westboro, but freedom of speech, it's a bitch isn't it?
Quaektem
Bingo! That's why there are gay Republicans!
Quaektem
It's OK for a group of private citizens to hold a counter protest against a hate-filled group. It is NOT OK for the government or a government official to block the free speech of an individual or a group.
You can disagree with me, you can speak out against me when I post, you can even go to the length of trolling me every time I log on, and since this is a private site Mark or another Mod can ban me from the site entirely to shut me up... but the government is (supposed to be) restricted from doing so by the First Amendment.
Homosexual groups are planning a 'kiss in' in front of, or inside Chick-fil-a's. Good for them! I have not a problem in the world with that as long as they are not disrupting normal business operations (and no, I don't think Pro-Life groups should be allowed to interfere, beyond protesting, with the operation of abortion clinics either... in case you were wondering).
bytehead
Hate might be a bit strong. But he certainly has issues with certain people without knowing a damn thing about them except that they are gay.
Considering Jesus said "Love thy neighbor", he didn't seem to have any conditions on it, nor did he put any conditions on his love of other people.
Q and I have hashed some of this before. My thought is that the Bible is impossible to live up to, there are too many contradictions. Somebody living by the bible must chose which parts that they want to live by. Living by some parts of the Leviticus I find absurd, and call me a cynic about the parts in the NT, it seems that those parts don't, and in my opinion can't, spring from what Jesus teaches. But I'm also not a Christian, so it certainly isn't up to me.
Is running a business free speech?
Quaektem
I would say so. If nothing else the running of a business is linked to the right to own and do what you will with your property.
Last I checked a business could support whatever non terrorist groups it wants and it's CEO can spout whatever nonsense comes to mind without fear of government reprisal. Public reprisal? Well that's the thing they should have to worry about.
bytehead
1st Amendment rights aren't property rights. And they still have to obey the law, despite how much they may be against it.
Quaektem
I would say that some (not all, or even most) aspects of running a business fall under free speech, but you are right... they must follow laws including anti-discrimination and anti-fraud laws that limit both speech and how they decide to run there business. (and obviously that is only a slight fraction of the rules and regulations businesses must adhere to).
If Chick-fil-a broke the law by denying service or employment based on homosexuality then they deserve to have the government come after them. Donating to groups that support traditional marriage and having the CEO declare a stance that until this year the president would not openly disagree does not require government to swoop in to 'protect the masses'... the masses are quite capable of making there own choice on whether or not to support that business by either working there or buying there products.
Viscera
And I for one would also boycott them.
Considering Jesus said "Love thy neighbor", he didn't seem to have any conditions on it, nor did he put any conditions on his love of other people.
The best example I can come up with is this. There are people who choose to smoke. There are people who are militant about non-smoking. In the end the person will decide for themselves if they choose to smoke. Society hasn't made the status of smokers a non-discriminatory class, but yet they are discriminated against on a regular basis.
You might hold the position that smoking is injurious to a persons health, so you counsel anyone who might be a smoker to stop, because of the end result of the act. You don't help them acquire cigarettes, and you don't approve oif the act, and maybe even won't hang out with them while they do it, but you can still be friends with them, and hope they will see the danger of the act and change their minds. Does that equate to "hating" them?
I would go so far as to say you love them because you want the best for them, even if they don't agree with what the definition of "best" is. In fact you may go so far as to support legislation that bans smoking from public places under the auspice of "public health" and thus really infringing on your friends ability to exercise their "rights" freely in public. Does that equate to hate?
Quaektem
And here, as a non-smoker/heterosexual I fully support someone's right to smoke, to be with smokers in public and to even light up in appropriate areas. I don't want it around my kids, and the smokers I know are courteous to not openly smoke around me until they head to bed... and it's not that I'll hate my kids for smoking if they choose to do so, it's that it's not a choice I would hope for, but as adults I will accept there decision to smoke and hope they do so responsibly.
Viscera
Five other companies that are joining Chick-Fil-A start your boycotts boyos, the list is growing of haters I guess!!!!
bytehead
I don't think the mayors, which I have no issue with them talking off the top of their head, are necessarily swooping in. On another mailing list, I have had to correct somebody that speech is not action, thrice. They have 1st Amendment rights themselves, and if somebody thinks that they should always have the correct answer at the tip of their tongue, especially when it does come to how actionable they think it is, they've got another thing coming.
Yes, and no. I think some of what is going on is rather ridiculous. At the same time, once Rosie quits (hopefully in about two weeks), I will be insisting on a no smoking house. Which will piss my kids off, but oh well.
Are those five companies donating their profits to anti-gay groups? I know plenty of religious people that are accepting of gays, hell I know some religious people that are gay, even Catholic.
Quaektem
His letter was fine, it was his comments prior to the letter that crossed the line... From Time Magazine:
“Chick-fil-A doesn’t belong in Boston,” Menino told the Boston Herald on Thursday. “You can’t have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against the population. We’re an open city, we’re a city that’s at the forefront of inclusion. That’s the Freedom Trail. That’s where it all started right here. And we’re not going to have a company, Chick-fil-A or whatever the hell the name is, on our Freedom Trail.”
...
But Menino just may succeed in effectively banning the chain from Boston: The mayor blocked the development of a Walmart in Roxbury last year, citing the retail empire’s negative impact on neighborhood business and lower-wage workers as his motivation. Now, he plans to offer Chick-fil-A a similar hurdle-laden policy. “If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult,” Menino said. “Unless they open up their policies.”
That is a threat of action, not just disagreement of ideas, and he has done it to another company he disagrees with already so it's not simply an idle threat.
Still looking for these evil anti-gay hate groups... you know the ones running around with pitchforks looking for gays to burn at the stake. There is ONE group that fights to defend traditional marriage (NOT to enact sodomy laws) that lobbied to change language in a bill to remove assertions that homosexual conduct is internationally recognized as a fundamental human right. Gee, what a horror! Also it is to be noted that any company that donates to a Church, the Boy Scouts, the United Way, Catholic Charities and hundreds of other 'hate groups' should also be boycotted for the same reasons... good luck buying anything at all!
Now, if you want to look beyond the rhetoric and hype and allow people to hold an opinion... and to express it... then it really shouldn't be a big deal. Would you rather the CEO of Chick-fil-a hide his donations or lie about what he believes? At least this way, the people who care about the issue can choose whether or not they want to support the company. Until they break the law I really don't care enough to either stop eating there or to drive 75 miles to make a point by eating there.
Oh, and I am enjoying a delicious Oreo as I type this... so 
Viscera
yeah, what he said (minus the oreos thing, or the 75 mile thing as I did that)

