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And Again, Paris

38 comments, 748 views, posted 11:04 pm 20/04/2017 in News by elsels
elsels has 13006 posts, 566 threads, 531 points, location: Wishing I was somewhere else!
I have no stinking title, leave me alone.

I guess I give up. This will happen weekly, then it will happen almost daily

So sick of it.

Extra Points Given by:

REALITY (5), Quaektem (5), LordViscera (5), superuser (5), Eavesy (5)

Comments

1
3:12 pm 21/04/2017

LordViscera

Quote by Vormid:
Quote by elsels:
The goal of the extremist? Ugh!


I assume that the goals of extremists vary greatly depending on their belief systems. A Buddhist extremist might light himself on fire or go on a knifing rampage depending on their beliefs and reasons for their actions.

Quote by LordViscera:
Quote by Vormid:
Quote by elsels:
in the end their goal is the same and has been the same for the past 1400 years



What's that?

ok, so I am assuming that either 1) you are being sardonic, or 2) you don't know or agree with the implication. Not getting argumentative here, but the goal of Islamic terrorists has always been the extremely literal interpretation of the Qu'Ran to bring in a Caliphate and to make non believers (Kafirs) to either submit to the ruling authority and pay a tax for the right to live there (dhimmi) to convert or die.



Neither actually. I'm trying to get to the root of the issue. Is that really that simple? Why not start at home?

Are all extremists terrorists?


two separate questions. Terrorists, by definition, are trying to incite and spread terror. The rioters (note I didn't say protesters) we've had here lately are either using terror as a tool to change the political landscape of the situation, or they don't see the act as negative. But I believe that you (general you) need to listen to what they are saying.

In the IRA situation, the IRA used terror to try and get the British out of N Ireland, and the use of religious differences was the the catalyst they used to try and marshal the forces on each side (that was my understanding of that situation) versus the all out war that one sect of Islam has against the other (Sunni vs Shia) and then with Kafirs. Listen to their words (the extremists) and think about what would they gain by sending out a false message?

If your goal as a terrorist was to change the political climate in France, but you sent the wrong objective yto be established, how would anyone meet your demands? ISIS says they want a world wide Caliphate. They want Kafir's to submit or die. I believe them. Not because it's convenient for my narrative, but I think they are bold enough to tell us what they are doing because they believe they can't be stopped

0
3:28 pm 21/04/2017

Vormid

Quote by LordViscera:
Quote by Vormid:
Quote by elsels:
The goal of the extremist? Ugh!


I assume that the goals of extremists vary greatly depending on their belief systems. A Buddhist extremist might light himself on fire or go on a knifing rampage depending on their beliefs and reasons for their actions.

Quote by LordViscera:
Quote by Vormid:
Quote by elsels:
in the end their goal is the same and has been the same for the past 1400 years



What's that?

ok, so I am assuming that either 1) you are being sardonic, or 2) you don't know or agree with the implication. Not getting argumentative here, but the goal of Islamic terrorists has always been the extremely literal interpretation of the Qu'Ran to bring in a Caliphate and to make non believers (Kafirs) to either submit to the ruling authority and pay a tax for the right to live there (dhimmi) to convert or die.



Neither actually. I'm trying to get to the root of the issue. Is that really that simple? Why not start at home?

Are all extremists terrorists?

two separate questions. Terrorists, by definition, are trying to incite and spread terror. The rioters (note I didn't say protesters) we've had here lately are either using terror as a tool to change the political landscape of the situation, or they don't see the act as negative. But I believe that you (general you) need to listen to what they are saying.

In the IRA situation, the IRA used terror to try and get the British out of N Ireland, and the use of religious differences was the the catalyst they used to try and marshal the forces on each side (that was my understanding of that situation) versus the all out war that one sect of Islam has against the other (Sunni vs Shia) and then with Kafirs. Listen to their words (the extremists) and think about what would they gain by sending out a false message?

If your goal as a terrorist was to change the political climate in France, but you sent the wrong objective to be established, how would anyone meet your demands? ISIS says they want a world wide Caliphate. They want Kafir's to submit or die. I believe them. Not because it's convenient for my narrative, but I think they are bold enough to tell us what they are doing because they believe they can't be stopped

I agree with you that a terrorists motivation is to incite terror, though the reasons differ even among terrorists. I obviously think that method to change the political climate in any country where there is a small population of said group is futile. Growing up I was baffled at the actions of the UK and IRA and never thought it was going to end. I often compared it to Israel and the West Bank and even to the American Revolution on occasion.


If you ask ISIS, Al Queda, Boko Haram, etc. as well as those claiming affiliation what their motivations are you will likely get a multitude different answers. ISIS can't even build a Caliphate in a small chunk of Iraq without getting push back, they aren't going to take over the world. I believe they might believe it but it's not going to happen.

0
3:43 pm 21/04/2017

elsels

You are likely right, but the motivation is there, and their belief is still there, if their motivation and belief are that strong then the killings will continue, because they are willing to die for that cause regardless of whether or not their goals will come to fruition. Remember that is their stated dogma (for extremists).

1
3:46 pm 21/04/2017

Vormid

Quote by elsels:
You are likely right, but the motivation is there, and their belief is still there, if their motivation and belief are that strong then the killings will continue, because they are willing to die for that cause regardless of whether or not their goals will come to fruition. Remember that is their stated dogma (for extremists).



So action derived by ideology. You aren't going to crush or change an ideology. Any restriction to an ideology violent or non violent will only strengthen the belief that they are in the right. Clearly attempts at assimilation are not working either.

0
3:48 pm 21/04/2017

elsels

Pretty much.

1
3:51 pm 21/04/2017

Vormid

With assimilation in mind could this be a resistance to assimilation of Muslims into the West? I do believe a majority of Muslims who have moved to the West do not support the actions of these few.

2
5:00 pm 21/04/2017

LordViscera

Quote by Vormid:
If you ask ISIS, Al Queda, Boko Haram, etc. as well as those claiming affiliation what their motivations are you will likely get a multitude different answers. ISIS can't even build a Caliphate in a small chunk of Iraq without getting push back, they aren't going to take over the world. I believe they might believe it but it's not going to happen.


BTW, I agree with you about our foreign policy being a contributor, why would/should any Islamic country believe us when we backed the Shah of Iran, worked against the will of the people of Iran, then armed, trained and backed Sadaam, then after our Iraqi proxy did the dirty work against Iran, we decided to remove him as well. Broken promises, the fact we back Israel, claim to be a secular govt but we ally with theocracies

2
5:03 pm 21/04/2017

Vormid

I thought (lol) one of Trump's platforms was to get out of the MidEast and start focusing on the home front. Now he's all "lets start WWIII".

1
6:04 pm 21/04/2017

REALITY

Quote by Vormid:
"lets start WWIII"

source for that quote?

3
6:19 pm 21/04/2017

Vormid

Quote by REALITY:
Quote by Vormid:
"lets start WWIII"


source for that quote?


India Times

Somewhat more reputable than MSNBC

1
10:23 pm 21/04/2017

tricpe

Quote by Vormid:
India Times

Somewhat more reputable than MSNBC

marksyzm's birthday, no less!

1
2:41 am 22/04/2017

LordViscera

Quote by Vormid:
I thought (lol) one of Trump's platforms was to get out of the MidEast and start focusing on the home front. Now he's all "lets start WWIII".


I think this might be the demonstration between what a candidate knows and is willing to say, and the burden on the commander in chief when he sees the carnage that really goes on. I know it's just a TV show, but in the West Wing, Pres Bartlett struggles with the same problem.

3
2:36 pm 22/04/2017

superuser

Quote by Vormid:
Okay....so what is the recommended solution to terror?

You know most terrorist's families get paid a monthly sallary if they die as Jihadists, the more deaths they caused, the higher the payrol. Dealing with that will be a good first step IMHO.

Also we need to see the education system of the countries that these terrorists come from. you will see so much lies hate and violence that is fed to these kids that you wont believe.

With global awareness and tough diplomacy we might make a change.

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