Here is the video of the same speech in which Obama said "You didn't build that," in a state of greater completion.
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Isaac Newton.
Context matters.
Comments
2:51 pm 19/07/2012
griffin
Just for the record: the context is exactly as I had thought. the man is clearly a political animal being a smug little shit playing his allotted part, when he has nothing to be smug about.
We've already made a trillion dollars worth of cuts. Jesus does he even listen to himself?
We're asking for the wealthy to pay a little bit more. Just a bit. Not much. Not so you'd miss it.
A guy named Bill Clinton did it. A guy named Bill Clinton listened to the Republican Congress.
Government research created DARPANET. It did not create the Internet. DARPANET != Internet.
The rest is just blah blah, flag waving, we work together (except with Congress, of course).
And just to continue Obama's theme, he certainly didn't get there on his own. So who is he 'giving back' to?
2:55 pm 19/07/2012
Viscera
if nothing else, he should be smarter then to think that by telling someone that you "didn't build your own business" that it wouldn't play well. The same message could have been delivered by saying,
Quote:
we are all in this together, we depend on each other. The business isn't a business without customers, without access (internet or actual roadways), without govt making a climate to foster prosperity.
But that wasn't the intention of the message (imo) it was to tell all those who think they are successes, that if you don't recognize that I can make or break you, I will break you. This isn't a feel good speech, but rather a "Know your role" speech. He is disgusting
2:59 pm 19/07/2012
Viscera
Quote by griffin:
A guy named Bill Clinton did it
Is that the same Bill Clinton that said,
Quote:
“Barack Obama,” Bill Clinton said, according to book excerpts, “is an amateur.
”
4:31 pm 19/07/2012
Quaektem
Quote by evolution:
Context matters.
Yes it does. He used it in the same context it was presented.
Thank you for posting the whole thing so people can see that.
5:14 pm 19/07/2012
Flee
Quote by griffin:
Government research created DARPANET. It did not create the Internet. DARPANET != Internet.
The guy who invented the bicycle, didnt invent the wheel, the gear, chains, metal tubes, etc. He built on existing technology that was created by someone else.
5:46 pm 19/07/2012
elsels
But was it the Govt? No, it was some other genious, sorry to bust that bubble but the govt does not build anything, they don't pay anything. They use the resources paid for by the people, and the ingenuity that comes from the minds of the PEOPLE. Simple, a govt has no money unless it collects taxes from the people.
5:48 pm 19/07/2012
griffin
Quote by Flee:
The guy who invented the bicycle, didnt invent the wheel, the gear, chains, metal tubes, etc. He built on existing technology that was created by someone else.
Yes, but only the guy who invented the bicycle actually invented the bicycle. The guy who invented the wheel didn't. Neither did the guy who invented the chain, or the clippy thing that goes on your spokes and makes such a cool sound. The Greeks and Romans didn't invent the steam engine, even though they suspected steam could do more than make toys work. Newcomen did it.
Not the guys who taught him maths. Not the guy who helped him with metallurgy. Not the guy who put up the wallpaper or delivered his eggs. Newcomen did it.
Just like the bike, his mathematics teacher may have given him the tools, but no way did he invent the steam engine. That was Newcomen. He was pretty rad.
9:42 pm 19/07/2012
bytehead
Quote by griffin:
Government research created DARPANET. It did not create the Internet. DARPANET != Internet.
If you really want to get nit picky, the Internet was a parallel research project that went with ARPANET. Only later did the name get changed to DARPANET. And until the early '90s, business could only use the Internet (and yes, it was called that by then) for research purposes. Commercial use then begat dialup services (Getting a T1 line connected to your house is still somewhat prohibitively expensive, which is why cable and DSL are still the best ways for consumers to connect today....) And most of those services only offered terminal access to begin with, so you used PINE/ELM for email, pico/nano for text editing, and lynx for text web browsing. Not a harsh issue considering most people were still using MS-DOS at that point. NExT had some nice eyecandy, and Apple really didn't want anything to do with Ethernet until much later, as getting a connection with your own IP address still took network (read Ethernet) drivers, even over dialup.
But yes, indeed, the Internet was created/researched/funded by the government, certainly in the beginning. To claim that it did not is truly being unable to remember the past. Because without ARPANET/DARPANET, we certainly wouldn't have the Internet we have today. The same protocols and the same hardware ran both, certainly in the beginning.
Quote by elsels:
But was it the Govt?
The government certainly did build the roads, they built quite a bit of the electrical infrastructure in this company country, and are responsible for giving those public/private businesses right of ways so that they can continue to expand the infrastructure.
Sorry, but it takes all kinds. Entrepreneurs certainly did not build this country all by their little lonesomes. It took the entrepreneurs, their customers, the government(s) and various middle men to make the whole thing click.
And yes, I think the "entrepreneurs" (because I don't think that everybody doing the bitching actually could possibly be called an entrepreneur in any sense of the word) are being little bitches about what the President said. They can say what they want, but IMNSHO, just because they have the label entrepreneur, doesn't give them any more credence.
10:15 pm 19/07/2012
Flee
Quote by griffin:
Yes, but only the guy who invented the bicycle actually invented the bicycle. The guy who invented the wheel didn't.
Granted, but the bicycle inventor cannot say it was all him. He used existing creations to create something new. Much like DARPANET/internet. Its not like the internet was created from nothing. They used someone elses creation and built on it.
I'm not saying that the inventor of the bicycle needs to give money to, or praise the inventor of the wheel, but the idea of "I did it all myself" is a fools thought. Its not possible to do something yourself, without direct or indirect assistance from others.
Specifically regarding Obamas words, I think "You didn't build that" was just a poor choice of words. The idea he was expressing was just that others helped along the way, or paved the way for your creation by creating something you need for your creation.
I don't expect you to agree with any of this as there seems to be 4-5 people on this site that refuse to do anything but attack Obama for poor wording.
I wish I could comment lock all these political threads.... The same people continually say the same shit. Neither side would give an inch, and jump on any stupid news article about Obama(or any politician) to attack and mock.
Guess what? Obama is a politician.... All politicians are assholes that would lie and sell you out for their own benefit.
11:05 pm 19/07/2012
griffin
Quote by Flee:
there seems to be 4-5 people on this site that refuse to do anything but attack Obama for poor wording.
And there are quite a number of apologists who grant him a lot of leeway regardless of what he says. Well, fuck him to be honest. He's had his chance and fucked it up.
Besides which, it is a common theme (this give back bullshit) on the left (or seems so to me) ever since Elizabeth Warren ran her mouth off. Of course Obama went one further and bluntly said that someone else built that, not you. So it isn't that you're standing on the shoulders of giants, someone else is. Dan fucking Quayle.
Quote by Flee:
All politicians are assholes that would lie and sell you out for their own benefit.
Well of course he would. Shit, he'd probably sell you out just to stay in practice.
11:28 pm 19/07/2012
Viscera
Quote by griffin:
there seems to be 4-5 people on this site that refuse to do anything but attack Obama for poor wording.
I've been posting Star Wars and music lately
2:10 am 20/07/2012
Flee
Quote by griffin:
And there are quite a number of apologists who grant him a lot of leeway regardless of what he says.
This is true. There were also 4-5 people doing the same when Bush was in power.
3:23 am 20/07/2012
evolution
Quote by DarkHelmet:
You didn’t post this. Somebody else made this happen.
So long as we're giving credit where it's due:
Obama made the speech.
C-SPAN filmed it.
LSUDVM posted it on Youtube.
Marksyzm created a site where I could post it.
WolfenUWG introduced me to the site.
Without getting too metaphysical, that's just the short list of people without whom this thread wouldn't exist.
Also my parents lent me $20,000 to make this post because they had all this money lying around.
4:18 am 20/07/2012
griffin
Quote by evolution:
So long as we're giving credit where it's due:
Obama made the speech.
C-SPAN filmed it.
LSUDVM posted it on Youtube.
Marksyzm created a site where I could post it.
WolfenUWG introduced me to the site.
Without getting too metaphysical, that's just the short list of people without whom this thread wouldn't exist.
Also my parents lent me $20,000 to make this post because they had all this money lying around.
Obama made the speech.
C-SPAN filmed it.
LSUDVM posted it on Youtube.
Marksyzm created a site where I could post it.
WolfenUWG introduced me to the site.
Without getting too metaphysical, that's just the short list of people without whom this thread wouldn't exist.
Also my parents lent me $20,000 to make this post because they had all this money lying around.
Don't forget Marconi, Tesla, Edison, Volta, Faraday, Ohm, Brunel, King John the second, George Washington, your biological clock, my career, oh yeah and the lives of two innocent boys. Is there any more shit we can pile on here while we're at it?
5:58 am 20/07/2012
Quaektem
Quote by Flee:
I don't expect you to agree with any of this as there seems to be 4-5 people on this site that refuse to do anything but attack Obama for poor wording.
Poor wording is one thing. When Obama repeatedly denigrates business and entrepreneurship in an effort to rouse class warfare there is more than one phrase to hang around his neck. The entire buildup to that line even in this speech relates to that same sentiment of thought and I can go back four years and show him saying similar things.
57 states? That was simply poor wording or a fatigued mind... but it was still funny.
7:10 pm 20/07/2012
bytehead
Quote by evolution:
Marksyzm created a site where I could post it.
Quote by evolution:
Without getting too metaphysical, that's just the short list of people without whom this thread wouldn't exist.
Technically, xix created the original site. And that's not getting too metaphysical.
Thank you!
8:04 pm 23/07/2012
bytehead
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/wsj-mangles-history-to-argue-government-didnt-launch-the-internet/ talking about http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444464304577539063008406518.html
Quote:
"It's an urban legend that the government launched the Internet," writes L. Gordon Crovitz in Monday's Wall Street Journal, launching into just one of a myriad of problems with his short opinion piece.
While he concedes that the military's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) program funded the creation of the ARPAnet, the first large-scale packet-switched network, he argues that the government doesn't deserve credit for the creation of the Internet:
Crovitz is right that Vinton Cerf, along with Bob Kahn, invented the TCP/IP protocol that is the foundation of the modern Internet. But he neglects to mention that Cerf's early work on the protocol was funded by the US military through its DARPA program.
"Hyperlinks" are not the Internet, and Tim Berners-Lee didn't invent them. Nor is the World Wide Web the Internet, although the Web has become such a popular Internet application that many people confuse the two. But more to the point, Berners-Lee was working at CERN, a research organization funded by European governments, when he invented the World Wide Web in the early 1990s.
Xerox is indeed a private company, and Xerox PARC researchers did develop some important computing technologies, including Ethernet and the graphical user interface. But it's not accurate to say that "the Ethernet was developed to link different computer networks." Ethernet was designed primarily as a local networking technology to connect computers in a home or office. The point of the Internet's TCP/IP protocol was to allow networks using different standards, including Ethernet, to communicate with each other. Many of the networks that now comprise the Internet use the Ethernet protocol, but what makes the Internet the Internet is TCP/IP, not Ethernet.
Indeed, not only is Crovitz confused about the origins of the Internet, he also seems not to understand the conventions of the World Wide Web. He quotes George Mason University economist Tyler Cowen as saying that "The Internet, in fact, reaffirms the basic free market critique of large government." But that quote wasn't written by Cowen. It was quoted by Cowen in a 2005 blog post. The page Cowen was quoting has succumbed to bitrot, but the Internet Archive has a copy.
The Wall Street Journal has earned a reputation for producing in-depth and meticulously fact-checked news coverage. Unfortunately, it doesn't always apply that same high standard of quality to their editorial page.
"It's an urban legend that the government launched the Internet," writes L. Gordon Crovitz in Monday's Wall Street Journal, launching into just one of a myriad of problems with his short opinion piece.
While he concedes that the military's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) program funded the creation of the ARPAnet, the first large-scale packet-switched network, he argues that the government doesn't deserve credit for the creation of the Internet:
Quote:
If the government didn't invent the Internet, who did? Vinton Cerf developed the TCP/IP protocol, the Internet's backbone, and Tim Berners-Lee gets credit for hyperlinks.
But full credit goes to the company where [Ethernet inventor Robert Taylor] worked after leaving ARPA: Xerox. It was at the Xerox PARC labs in Silicon Valley in the 1970s that the Ethernet was developed to link different computer networks. Researchers there also developed the first personal computer (the Xerox Alto) and the graphical user interface that still drives computer usage today.
If the government didn't invent the Internet, who did? Vinton Cerf developed the TCP/IP protocol, the Internet's backbone, and Tim Berners-Lee gets credit for hyperlinks.
But full credit goes to the company where [Ethernet inventor Robert Taylor] worked after leaving ARPA: Xerox. It was at the Xerox PARC labs in Silicon Valley in the 1970s that the Ethernet was developed to link different computer networks. Researchers there also developed the first personal computer (the Xerox Alto) and the graphical user interface that still drives computer usage today.
Crovitz is right that Vinton Cerf, along with Bob Kahn, invented the TCP/IP protocol that is the foundation of the modern Internet. But he neglects to mention that Cerf's early work on the protocol was funded by the US military through its DARPA program.
"Hyperlinks" are not the Internet, and Tim Berners-Lee didn't invent them. Nor is the World Wide Web the Internet, although the Web has become such a popular Internet application that many people confuse the two. But more to the point, Berners-Lee was working at CERN, a research organization funded by European governments, when he invented the World Wide Web in the early 1990s.
Xerox is indeed a private company, and Xerox PARC researchers did develop some important computing technologies, including Ethernet and the graphical user interface. But it's not accurate to say that "the Ethernet was developed to link different computer networks." Ethernet was designed primarily as a local networking technology to connect computers in a home or office. The point of the Internet's TCP/IP protocol was to allow networks using different standards, including Ethernet, to communicate with each other. Many of the networks that now comprise the Internet use the Ethernet protocol, but what makes the Internet the Internet is TCP/IP, not Ethernet.
Indeed, not only is Crovitz confused about the origins of the Internet, he also seems not to understand the conventions of the World Wide Web. He quotes George Mason University economist Tyler Cowen as saying that "The Internet, in fact, reaffirms the basic free market critique of large government." But that quote wasn't written by Cowen. It was quoted by Cowen in a 2005 blog post. The page Cowen was quoting has succumbed to bitrot, but the Internet Archive has a copy.
The Wall Street Journal has earned a reputation for producing in-depth and meticulously fact-checked news coverage. Unfortunately, it doesn't always apply that same high standard of quality to their editorial page.