17

Fixing Roe V.Wade

19 comments, 262 views, posted 1:29 am 17/05/2019 in Politics by Quaektem
Quaektem has 4055 posts, 235 threads, 163 points, location: It's all fun and games until someone loses an imaginary number!
Putinbot 9000

It's unfortunte that the government is so wrapped up in the Trump scandle. There is something bigger happening and an opportunity to fix a problem that has been festering in this country since the 70's, sme thing that is coming to a head... abortion.

On one hand we have states making having an abortion at all illegal, in others we see a push for infanticide. There is a position between those two poles that has become more an more unacceptable fro both sides. It's a reasonable position, one supported by over 70% of Americans and the current president...then there is the 'no abortion ever' crowd and the 'abortion at any point even after birth' crowd (a recent development that I think is the real reason for the recent conservative kick-back.

What we need, really need, is for Congress to pass a reasonable Abortion bill, one Trump would not have a problem signing (he's pro-abortion), I can see a bill allowing for easy access to abortifacients and morning after pills, one that allowed unrestricted access during the first trimester, and access to abortion for those in the second or third trimester for any case of a risk of harm to the mother or genetic problems (discovered through amniotic tests), or for any case of incest or pregnancy of a raped minor up until the end of pregnancy. In the case the child is born, it no longer falls under the ability of the mother to make a choice (similar to girls that get procecuted for having a child in the prom bathroom and get proecuted).

If Congress quantified and passed this basic set of laws, most (sure, not all) of the kickback would be negated... sure 'my body my choice' goups would be pissed, and the 'abortion is murder' crowd would be pissed... but frankly, I dont cae about either of those groups.

Personal bits I would like to see in this bill? Subsidized sterilizartion for both sexes and a forfeture of fraternal responsability (in the same time frame, given due notice as a woman would get). Sterilization is a big step, but for those that don't want to be parents (or don't want any more... like me!) sterilization saves alot of money and stress. Forfature of fraternal rights gives men the same rights as females... to not be a parent. Every single argument that can be made to justify abortion supports this position. After that, the woman can still choose whether to raise the kid alone without child support, give it up for adoptioin or drop it off at a safe drop place as she chooses. Men should have reproductive freedom, just like women, that isn't dependent on celibacy.

Bottom line, Congress has been derilict in their duty to pass actual laws that would back up one of the most significnt SJC ruling since the Dred Scott case (which led us into the Civil War). The Democrats have had multiple opportunities with both houses and the presidency... and none of them bothered and here we are.

Extra Points Given by:

elsels (5), REALITY (10)

Comments

1
1:36 am 17/05/2019

Flee

No politician wants to touch this as they fear losing votes and reelection.

2
1:37 am 17/05/2019

Flee

Speaking of this, I have to make a call for my FREE(albeit paid with taxes) vasectomy.

2
1:43 am 17/05/2019

z0phi3l

Quote by Flee:
No politician wants to touch this as they fear losing votes and reelection.



And that's a problem, these morons are too busy giving themselves power and worrying about elections, or crying about Trump because bad, that they will not even touch something most Americans outside of the extremes have already settled on

But of course overreacting to what happens in a nothing State is more important than having an actual dialogue on the issue, easier to stoke up the useful idiot patrols on social media

0
2:14 am 17/05/2019

Quaektem

Other than my add-ons... what would have been contriversial ten, twenty, thirty, forty years ago? Why hasn't this been done other than to keep the contraversy going?

Sure, during the Billy Graham it would have been a political risk (even though during the time of his influence Congress was entierly and solidly Democrat). Billy's days are long past, we've been past thinking about what the definition of is is, and we've survived pussy hats. Hell, something like this would have been a quick vote if the ACA wasn't such a focus (heck, a bill like this would have run through Obama's first congress like industrial strength Exlax though Jim Gaffagan.

2
3:22 am 17/05/2019

griffin

Congress has no authority to legislate anything concerning abortion. Unless we suddenly and secretly adopted a new Constitution, the Tenth Amendment would seem to apply. What is currently happening is what should be happening. Individual states are deciding for themselves how to exercise the power that they have, exactly like the Founders expected.

1
3:27 am 17/05/2019

griffin

Quote by Quaektem:
a forfeture of fraternal responsability


What? You mean parental rights?

Quote by Quaektem:
What we need, really need, is for Congress to pass a reasonable Abortion bill


Shit, no we don't. We need them fuckers to relinquish the powers they have stolen. We need them to void laws such as the Patriot Act, and to work assiduously to protect the rights of the citizens. That is what we need. You know, they should do their fucking jobs.

0
4:59 am 17/05/2019

Quaektem

you know... you are right. I'll retract based on the 10th Amendment. Thank you for the reminder.

1
6:25 pm 17/05/2019

MASTERV

NO MAN should make a law that effects only womens physical health and psychological health without a significant overwhelming majority of female support. And in this case I am not seeing any effort to determine what the female population Watts at a state level and definitely not at a federal level that would warrant the need to change the law let alone make an amendment to the Constitution regarding abortion.

This is another one of those areas that these people need to put their fucking Bible down and pull their head out of their ass and get some community common sense. I'm fine with someone having strong beliefs but you should not be allowed or feel you have a right to force those views on others.

2
8:08 pm 17/05/2019

Flee

Saw this on Facebook and feel like it's a good point

2
8:09 pm 17/05/2019

Flee

End of the day, it takes 2 to make a baby and both should get a say.

Not talking about rape, obviously.

0
10:25 pm 17/05/2019

MASTERV

My official opinion on abortion is: (and I reserve the right to change or modify my thinking later), that the only abortion I am against is one that is forced upon the woman. A bunch of old white guys (which I am a member of that group) should not be dictating laws that only effect the opposite sex without there consent. I also believe that the biggest sin a human can commit is not the killing of an unborn but pretending they know the will of GOD well enough to speak for GOD and to pass judgment onto others in the name of GOD.

Quote by Flee:
End of the day, it takes 2 to make a baby and both should get a say.

Not talking about rape, obviously.



"Equal say" is fine but that is not even close to what it is, has been and no even close to where it is heading. But then again, is what the woman does in the process of creating a child really justify the man getting 50% or more of the say?

Worse part is these people pushing this anti abortion crap are treating it like the decision to get an abortion is only because of a choice by a careless woman when there are so many more reason that are getting ignored like: Health of the mother, Health of the baby, Mental ability to raise a child, financial concerns, Rape, Incest, failed birth control....

If our species was in decline, if we were so few numbers that survival was at risk, if every human born was a positive on society then yes I could see abortion and gay rights being pushed a side for the make babies movement but we are far from any of those reasons. An even worse thing about allowing a small number of peoples twisted ideas to become the law of the land is whats next? Is a miscarriage now going to be a crime like it is in other countries? Is there now going to be a ban on birth control? Are women that don't or are unable to have kids going to be punished or shunned?

Now for the financial who the fuck is going to pay for all the unwanted babies women are forced to have? who is going to pay to take care of the increase in the number of kids that are born with serious birth defects that would have been aborted. Who is going to pay to house all the women that are imprisoned for killing the unwanted kids or forcing a miscarriage and all of the people that assist in those crimes? Are we going to make drugs legal just to refill the prisons with sinners that were judged by men not gods?

Religion is quickly out pacing 24 hour new channels as the worse invention of all time.

0
10:40 pm 17/05/2019

Quaektem

Quote:
What? You mean parental rights?

Parental rights, access to the child and avoidance of child support. If she gets to choose whether a child lives or dies, certainly a man's right to walk away from it is less severe. Then, if she doesn't want to be a single mother without support, she can have an abortion.

Why? Because this happens:

[quote=MASTERV] CHICAGO — An appeals court said a man can press a claim for emotional distress after learning a former lover had used his sperm to have a baby. But he can’t claim theft, the ruling said, because the sperm were hers to keep.[/quote]


Quote by MASTERV:
A bunch of old white guys...

That's racist, sexist and ageist! ...and I don't know why the young black guys are getting a say... but I digress.

It's also absurd. So in order for any legistlative body votes on an issue affecting women's heath (mental or physical) they should poll the female population to get a quorum? We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic. Since 1964 more women have voted than men (in 2016 by almost ten million votes!), which means women are voting in the 'old white men' that you don't want to have a say.

Besides... the old white guys on the SJC made a ruling on the matter. Perhaps they should have sat out?

0
11:00 pm 17/05/2019

Quaektem

Quote by MASTERV:
"Equal say" is fine but that is not even close to what it is, has been and no even close to where it is heading. But then again, is what the woman does in the process of creating a child really justify the man getting 50% or more of the say?



I don't think anyone is saying men should have 50% say (or there would be many more abortions brought about by men not wanting to be fathers!) But they should have some power right now they have none.

Quote by MASTERV:
Mental ability to raise a child, financial concerns, Rape, failed birth control....



All of these could apply to men as well... especially financial concerns. Even at a moderate level of income a guy can expect to pay over $100,000 in direct support to a woman who chooses to become a mother (not to mention his share of medical, daycare and schooling!). Men can be lied to about a woman's birth control (when men do it it's called 'stealthing'), can be taken advantage of while drunk, and can be raped by women (the statistic comes up as 'Forced to Penetrate'). Can you even imagine a man being allowed to terminate a pregnancy for these reasons?

0
11:00 pm 17/05/2019

Quaektem

Quote by MASTERV:
Is a miscarriage now going to be a crime like it is in other countries? Is there now going to be a ban on birth control? Are women that don't or are unable to have kids going to be punished or shunned?



Only in Muslim communities!

1
12:03 am 18/05/2019

Flee

See, abortion has me torn. On one hand, there are too many stupid on the planet, and I am pro genetic integrity of humans, so I support abortion for babies that have defects or disease, if the parents choose. Or in situations where the birth could cost the life of the mother.

On the other hand, I am against it as you should be responsible enough to not make life when you don't want to care for said life. Accidents do happen, like an instance I know of where a doctor forgot to tell the girl the medication he prescribed makes the pill useless, and she got pregnant. She didn't abort, but I agree with doing so in those situations.

2
8:26 am 18/05/2019

REALITY

The morning after pill is still a perfectly legal form of birth control in all the anti abortion states.

0
2:14 pm 18/05/2019

griffin

Quote by Quaektem:
We are not a democracy


Yes we are. It is the voting. Dead giveaway. And integral part of being a republic.

Quote by Quaektem:
we are a constitutional republic


Which is a subset of democracy.

I would love to know where this ridiculous notion comes from, that a republic isn't a democracy.

1
2:23 pm 18/05/2019

griffin

Quote by MASTERV:
"Equal say" is fine but that is not even close to what it is


I know. You don't get any say in whether the child (your child) should be brought to term. But you'll be fucked through all the courts and prisons if you don't pay for it. Hmm. Something seems a little off-kilter here. Could it be that the women saying "it's my body" mean that, and that men have no say, and must forfeit their property regardless of whether they wanted a child or not?

Abortion is not a simple black/white issue. And any approach to it should be nuanced and flexible. Personally I think prohibition is unworkable, and indeed these laws were passed to force the issue in the courts rather than actually be enforced. However, it is ridiculous to say old white men are imposing their will. The laws we have reflect the ethos of our society. People want pot legalized, boom. By and large we get what we want, admittedly with some lag. Still, it sure as hell isn't old white guys imposing their will on women, these laws reflect the will of the people. No one is introducing laws like these in NY or California for example, that would be game over, career done, except in frothy-mouthed republican strongholds.

0
2:45 pm 18/05/2019

elsels

Hol..... crap, for the first time in a while I agree with you.

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