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13

I’m a Mormon, Not a Christian

52 comments, 310 views, posted 8:03 pm 13/06/2012 in Religion by Viscera
Viscera has 11720 posts, 1443 threads, 673 points, location: 1123 6536 5321
Lord of Glencoe

THANKS to Mitt Romney, a Broadway hit and a relentless marketing campaign by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormons seem to be everywhere.

This is the so-called Mormon Moment: a strange convergence of developments offering Mormons hope that the Christian nation that persecuted, banished or killed them in the 19th century will finally love them as fellow Christians.

I want to be on record about this. I’m about as genuine a Mormon as you’ll find — a templegoer with a Utah pedigree and an administrative position in a congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am also emphatically not a Christian.

For the curious, the dispute can be reduced to Jesus. Mormons assert that because they believe Jesus is divine, they are Christians by default. Christians respond that because Mormons don’t believe — in accordance with the Nicene Creed promulgated in the fourth century — that Jesus is also the Father and the Holy Spirit, the Jesus that Mormons have in mind is someone else altogether. The Mormon reaction is incredulity. The Christian retort is exasperation. Rinse and repeat.

I am confident that I am not the only person — Mormon or Christian — who has had enough of the acrimonious niggling from both sides over the nature of the trinity, the authority of the creeds, the significance of grace and works, the union of Christ’s divinity and humanity, and the real color of God’s underwear. I’m perfectly happy not being a Christian. My Mormon fellows, most of whom will argue earnestly for their Christian legitimacy, will scream bloody murder that I don’t represent them. I don’t. They don’t represent me, either.

I’m with Harry Emerson Fosdick, the liberal Protestant minister and former pastor of Riverside Church in Manhattan, who wrote that he would be “ashamed to live in this generation and not be a heretic.” Being a Christian so often involves such boorish and meanspirited behavior that I marvel that any of my Mormon colleagues are so eager to join the fold.

In fact, I rather agree with Richard D. Land, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, who calls Mormonism a fourth Abrahamic religion, along with Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Being set apart from Christianity in this way could give Mormonism a chance to fashion its own legacy.

Christianity, you’ll recall, had to fight the same battle. Many early Christians grew up reading the Torah, living the law, observing the Sabbath and thinking of themselves as Jews. They were aghast to find that traditional Judaism regarded them as something else entirely.

In addition, these Christians had to defend their use of additional scripture and their unconventional conception of God and explain why they were following a bumpkin carpenter from some obscure backwater. Early Christianity’s relationship with non-Jews was even worse. Roman writers frequently alluded to rumors about the cannibalistic and hedonistic elements of early Christian rites. One after the other, Christians went to the lions because they found it impossible to defend themselves against such outrageous accusations. They did eat flesh and drink blood every Sunday, after all.

Eventually, Christianity grew up and conceded that it wasn’t authentic Judaism. Lo and behold, once it had given up its claim to Judaism, it became a state religion — cannibalism notwithstanding — and spent the next 1,700 years getting back at all the bullies who had slighted it when it was a child.

Eventually, Mormonism will grow up. Maybe a Mormon in the White House will hasten that moment when Mormonism will no longer plead through billboards and sappy radio ads to be liked, though I suspect that Mr. Romney is such a typical politician that, should he occupy the Oval Office, he’ll studiously avoid the appearance of being anything but a WASP. This could set back the cause of Mormon identity by decades.

Whatever happens in November, I hope Mormonism eventually realizes that it doesn’t need Christianity’s approval and will get big and beat up all the imperious Christians who tormented it when it was small, weird and painfully self-conscious. Mormons are certainly Christian enough to know how to spitefully abuse their power.

David V. Mason, an associate professor of theater at Rhodes College, is the author of “Theatre and Religion on Krishna’s Stage: Performing in Vrindavan” and “My Mormonism: A Primer for Non-Mormons and Mormons, Alike.”

Extra Points Given by:

Quaektem (10)

Comments

0
5:28 am 16/06/2012

Viscera

Quote by backroom:

So, you chose to create a list of other references instead of challenging mine.

I did challenge you. The reference states that we came from both God the father and Christ. Sorry if you don't like it

Quote by 1 Cor 8:6 English Standard Version:
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Quote by backroom:

Passages that say there is only one God:

"For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh. " Genesis 2:24
Nope, that verse has nothing to do with the singularity of God

"there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
That is about no one has a nature like God, except of course God
"Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
Yep I would agree with that reference, again speaking of other entities, look at the context
"Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
"See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
"Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
"You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
again all those are about the nature of God and to be specific, the references in the OT was often about the gods of the people of the areas (Ashteroth, Baal, etc)
"For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2 Samuel 22:32
"Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
"You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth." 2 Kings 19:15
"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
"You alone [bad] are Yahweh." Nehemiah 9:6
"For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God" Psalm 18:31
"You alone [bad], Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20
"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
"‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
glad you cited this in Revelation Jesus says the EXACT SAME THING

Quote by Rev 22:13:
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”


"Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8
"I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
"Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
"I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
"And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad]." Zechariah 14:9
Jesus is the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords

Quote:
q Timothy 6:1515 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Rev 17:14,14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” and Rev 19:1616 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one [hen] and love the other, or he will be devoted to one [hen] and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." Matthew 6:24
lol, talking about the love of money vs God, not two different gods
"For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one [hen] flesh"? " Matthew 19:5
Why do you keep going back to this one? It talks of a husband and wife being "one flesh" and that is talking about caring about your spouse as if it were you own body
"But do not be called Rabbi; for One [hen] is your Teacher, and you are all brothers." Matthew 23:8
How is this about God???
"Do not be called leaders; for One [hen] is your Leader, that is, Christ." Matthew 23:10
Yep, if Christ is your leader, then He is God as God is the only one you are to follow
""The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; " Mark 12:29
See Lord of Lords comments above
"you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?" John 5:44
"I and the Father are one [hen]." John 10:30
Thanks for making my point, Jesus was saying this
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only [monos] true God" John 17:3
"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one [hen], just as We are one [hen]" John 17:22
Again Jesus speaking to God,
"since indeed God is one [hen]" Romans 3:30
Speaking about God being the God of the Gentiles and the Jews
"to the only [monos] wise God, Amen." Romans 16:27
Speaking of God's wisdom, not his plurality or singularity
"there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
"yet for us there is but one [hen] God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
Talking about idols not being real.

There were plenty of others, but you seem to be repeating a bunch of them. You have shown exactly my point, that without any instruction you have cited passages that have absolutely nothing to do with God's singularity. You try and show by sheer numbers that the "evidence" shows you are right, your citing only shows you can cut and paste where a word search was used, because so many of thoise have absolutely nothing to do with this issue. More to the point, you incorrectly claim using Catholic references, that Romanism says that God and Jesus are separate. You are iun error Catholic Catechism about Jesus

Westminster Catechism for Protestant Doctrine

Heidleburg Catechism

Quote by backroom:

Interpret as you will.
But you are the car salesman trying to sell me a car.


I'm not "selling" anything, you will believe or not as you will, I just ask you be accurate with your assertions. Don't believe me, go to the sites from the particular theologies amd see what they say, I'm sure the Catholics know what their doctrine is better then you, just sayin

ok, we'll start small. Answer me this, In Genesis 1, it says "In the beginning, God" the Hebrew word for "God" is 'elohiym, which is the plural of El, the singular word for a deity. Explain that. John 1:1

Quote:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Again, the statement says Jesus, "The Word" was God.

0
5:34 am 16/06/2012

Viscera

btw, this was a good practice for me for the Sat morning Men's Bible study, thanks for the exercise. (Not being sarcastic)

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